"adding to his shadiness, he hangs out with a — gasp —JEWISH GUY (the portrayal of Meyer Wolfsheim is not Fitzgerald’s finest moment, IMHO, but there are also some pretty racist asides in the book and… just, eek, what can you say)." --> please write a whole book just summarizing book plots!! also: predictablier. hahahaha. Thank you for this unforgettable summation of Gatsby. I know it was for a point but more importantly it made me laugh!
Next: You wrote about the plot being "causal: one thing irrevocably leading to the next." I want to say, "But causal doesn't necessarily mean linear."
If you agree (if you don't my career is sunk), how can we apply your points about plot to, say, a braided novel in which the chapters don't go in chronological order, and/or multiple voices speak about the same event, and/or....? I agree that these works should be causal too, but they don't tell the story A to B to C "as it happened." Can you say more about this?
Yes for sure! I totally agree. But even if the chapters/voices aren't telling the story in order, the story itself should feel causal -- I mean, unless we're in some Murakami/surreal realm! A fancy form won't obscure plot holes or a half-baked story idea (or not for long anyway). Or at least that's how I feel when I'm reading! How about you?
My reading experience is probably not applicable to this question, since my all-time favorite author (not even close) is James Joyce. I'm not sure I would have seen plot holes in Ulysses, BUT the story idea--a single day in the intertwined lives of three people in Dublin, with all the Irish history and goings-on that implies--is absolutely fully baked.
That aside, I know the stories I tell won't obscure plot holes or half-bakery, even though they're not linear, so I'm taking your insights to heart. Thank you again.
I feel you! My thought is always that if one is going to eschew traditional plot structures, one had better have something great to offer instead— like Joyce’s wild experimentation with style and voice, for example. But also, so much of writing is about letting oneself play. Why not?
Agreed. And...I'm thinking there's letting oneself play, and there's producing something publishable. Maybe it's a matter of finding the overlap, or playing at one phase of the writing process and "real worlding" at another. That may be too big a topic for this thread!
"adding to his shadiness, he hangs out with a — gasp —JEWISH GUY (the portrayal of Meyer Wolfsheim is not Fitzgerald’s finest moment, IMHO, but there are also some pretty racist asides in the book and… just, eek, what can you say)." --> please write a whole book just summarizing book plots!! also: predictablier. hahahaha. Thank you for this unforgettable summation of Gatsby. I know it was for a point but more importantly it made me laugh!
Haha thanks! I did really enjoy rereading Gatsby for this. What a weird book honestly!
First: 500 bonus points for "predictablier."
Next: You wrote about the plot being "causal: one thing irrevocably leading to the next." I want to say, "But causal doesn't necessarily mean linear."
If you agree (if you don't my career is sunk), how can we apply your points about plot to, say, a braided novel in which the chapters don't go in chronological order, and/or multiple voices speak about the same event, and/or....? I agree that these works should be causal too, but they don't tell the story A to B to C "as it happened." Can you say more about this?
Yes for sure! I totally agree. But even if the chapters/voices aren't telling the story in order, the story itself should feel causal -- I mean, unless we're in some Murakami/surreal realm! A fancy form won't obscure plot holes or a half-baked story idea (or not for long anyway). Or at least that's how I feel when I'm reading! How about you?
My reading experience is probably not applicable to this question, since my all-time favorite author (not even close) is James Joyce. I'm not sure I would have seen plot holes in Ulysses, BUT the story idea--a single day in the intertwined lives of three people in Dublin, with all the Irish history and goings-on that implies--is absolutely fully baked.
That aside, I know the stories I tell won't obscure plot holes or half-bakery, even though they're not linear, so I'm taking your insights to heart. Thank you again.
I feel you! My thought is always that if one is going to eschew traditional plot structures, one had better have something great to offer instead— like Joyce’s wild experimentation with style and voice, for example. But also, so much of writing is about letting oneself play. Why not?
Agreed. And...I'm thinking there's letting oneself play, and there's producing something publishable. Maybe it's a matter of finding the overlap, or playing at one phase of the writing process and "real worlding" at another. That may be too big a topic for this thread!
that's the dream, is finding that overlap! I think so anyway :)